unreliable dialing in wingate 6

[ron christensen]

I am running the trial of wingate 6, upgrading from 4.5. The operating system is windows 2000 Pro Workstation completely up to date (sp4). The two client computers are also windows 2000.

Dialing up an ISDN connection sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. Since there is a wingate client, why don't you add a button to force dialing? The server is in a separate building and it requires a long walk to go over and force dialing. I have tried with DNS dialing both on and off. I prefer it off because I get charged for each connection. Wingate seems to get in a state where it just won't dial. Once I manually dial, it seems to work. Restarting the server also seems to solve the problem. If I had control over the dial up connection from the client (including a status indicator), I would like this wingate alot more.

Also, 4.5 worked in the server even when no user was logged on. I prefer this for extra security. Is it possible to use version 6 when logged off?

Thanks for any help.

Ron C.

[Pascal]

Yup, version 6 runs as a service as well, so you don't need to be logged in. do you have debugging switched on for your dialer log? If you do - can you email that to me. If not, switch it on until the problem occurs, then email it to me, please.

[ron christensen]

Pascal,

I am still having dialing problems. I took a look at the logs and the dialer log just shows that no dialing takes place. I have spent a lot of time reading through the help files and I have set up a separate test system at home. At home, I can't dial reliably unless I have "Allow request to initiate dialer" checked in the DNS service. Other than that, it works very reliably but not when logged off. At work, I haven't changed anything and it will show the "Connected to Wingate" message box on the client, but will not initiate a dial up on the server.

It was found that changing IE to dial locally through a regular modem will cause the server to initiate dialing through the ISDN modem. This is our current work around. We go into IE Tools>Options>Connection and select "always dial". Then we re-run internet explorer and initiate local dialing. After a connection is made, we change to "never dial" and re-run internet explore and it connects through the server. We disconnect the local dial up connection. This method is easier than walking to the other building and forcing a dial-up, but it is still a pain.

I would like to get this set up properly, so that dial up is never a problem. I am willing to uninstall and reinstall the wingate server and clients. Could you tell me what settings need changed from the default that will insure that dial up works. Then, if it doesn't work, I can send you the configuration and history and any other logs so that it can be fixed. All machines are running win2k completely up to date. Norton Internet Security 2005 is also running on all machines. The network ip addresses are all static.

I am running out of time on the trial period and would like to get this working so that it can be purchased.

Ron C.

[jamesc]

Hi Ron,

First a questions

1. When was NIS put on the machine.

--------------------------------------------
FYI:

I saw a similar problem the other day. We asked the client to send us his registry file, loaded into WinGate then I configured a 56k modem and did some test.

Server Win2000 pro sp4, 192.168.6.3 / 255.255.255.0
Server has 56k modem. DNS is given via Dialup. "Allow request to initiate dialer" checked in the DNS service

Client is a Win2k pro sp4. 192.168.6.37 / 255.255.255.0 Gateway 192.168.6.3 DNS Server 192.168.6.3

Test 1:
From Client machine, Put the proxy setting of 192.168.6.3 port 80 into Internet Explorer. (No DNS or Gateway)
--> Opened www.google.com
--> Dialer Initiated, retrieved page, and allowed further browsing of
--> search results based on search "test".

Test 2:
From client machine, adjusted TCP/IP properties of Gateway/DNS from blank to 192.168.6.3, removed any reference to proxies in Internet Explorer (looking into all proxy options to make sure blank).
--> Open www.google.com
--> Dialer Intiated, retrieved page, and allowed further browsing of
--> search results based on "pope"


Test 3:
On client machine, installed WinGate Internet Client (WGIC). Cleared Gateway, but used 192.168.6.3 for DNS settings, checked all proxy settings in Internet Explorer were clear
-->Opened www.msn.com
--> Dialer Intiated, retrieved page, and allowed further browsing

Summary, apart from having to refresh the web browser once or twice, there were no visible issues. These test were done over a couple of hours only.

James

[ron christensen]

James,

Thanks for the response. NIS was installed first. I had to adjust the trusted zone to make it work. I tried it with NIS disabled and it didn't seem to fix anything.

Right now, we have the dns initiating dialup unchecked. I would like to have this work similar to the way that 4.5 was working. That is, server is logged off and dial out only occurs when IE or Outlook are opened on the client. It is my belief that the newer version should work better than the old version.

I have played with my home setup and I find that the local sites list in the dialer does not seem to work as advertised. One problem that we have is that symantec will make frequent update checks so I put symantec in the local sites list. It still dials out.

The tests that you ran probably work on my home setup as well as long as the dns "Allow request to initiate dialer" is checked. Try the test without this checked. Also try with the server logged out.

Can you explain how using dial up on the client machine initiates dialup on the server? Should I remove NIS and reinstall wingate on the server? Please give me some recommended settings.

Ron C.

[jamesc]

Hi Ron,

There are alot of details here and there in this post. So let us establish a few facts and I will state my understanding/brainstorm on these prob

1. Statement from first post. "Dialing up an ISDN connection sometimes works and sometimes doesn't"

Lets establish your settings with this.

-->Gatekeeper --> Dialer --> General :

a) Is the "connect as required using the connection list" ticked
b) Is your ISDN modem in the list below a)
c) When you find the properties for your ISDN modem, Have you got :
--> "Enable this connection to be used by WinGate" ticked.
--> "Is the correct username and password set"
d) In the "Access" tab, Are the correct permissions granted for all people who require to initiate the dialer


2. Statement from first post: "I have tried with DNS dialing both on and off. I prefer it off because I get charged for each connection."

a) What applications do you use, that requires an internet DNS server for your local network?


3) Statement from second post: At home, I can't dial reliably unless I have "Allow request to initiate dialer" checked in the DNS service."

a) So am I correct ot assume that if you have IE open, and "allow intitiate dialer... DNS" not ticked, that you can access google by going to http://66.102.7.147 ? Will it dial for you? (Because we have bypassed the requirement to have DNS)


4) Statement from second post "It was found that changing IE to dial locally through a regular modem will cause the server to initiate dialing through the ISDN modem"

a) Is that because it grabs the DNS through your Dialup, and then sends the IP address to through WinGate Internet Client to dial up via the ISDN modem?


Kind Regards,

James
***********Question of the NIS was out of curiosity. I have a PC at home that sometimes has other people using it, and they will click on the system messages sometimes and Block stuff. And then I am stuffed round testing if my internet connection works because an application will not run; Disable NIS and it works again. Thought I should comment on that.

[ron christensen]

James,

Thanks again for helping me with this. I haven't worried too much about the settings, because it will work for several hours, but the next day, it doesn't dial out until a dial out is forced, either on the server or using the local dialing trick. After the forced dialing, dial out works when IE or Outlook is run through the client. If the settings were whacked, I'm guessing that it wouldn't work at all.

1. a) Connect as required is checked.
b) ISDN Modem Dialup connectoid is listed
c) Enable this connection for Wingate is checked.
Login info is set.
d) Access is permitted to users "everyone"
2. a) We use Internet explorer and Outlook and occasionally an ftp program.
3. a) at work, we kick the dialer in the pants by opening IE with "Always dial (local modem)" checked. This makes a connection with the isp on a normal phone line. As soon as the login is complete and windows displays that the connection has been setablished, the dialer on the server dials out to the ISDN line and makes a connection. We change the options in IE and disconnect the local phone connection and connect to the internet through the ISDN line. If we then disconnect the ISDN connection, we can open IE on the client and it will dial out on the server.
At home, I open IE and see wrp control session iexplore.exe and it doesn't dial out unless I have the DNS initiate checked. I just checked on my home setup and it actually did dial out with DNS initiate turned off. I have logs from last saturday when it did not dial out unless the DNS request was turned on.
4. a) I don't know the mechanism, but DNS initiate is off. I don't know enough about WGIC, but I can see that having the gateway set for the server would send information that way. Maybe Microsoft has some dial up command that wingate uses that would initiate the dialing. The microsoft dialup connectoid on the server is setup to prompt, so it would not automatically dial.

Using DNS to initiate dialing means that symantec and windows update will initiate dialing. I have the automatic updates turned off, but I am frequently surprised by new instances of dialing and I would feel better if they couldn't initiate dialing. We are upgrading Quicken and it will probably do the same thing. We would also like to be logged off the server. I haven't had that work on my home setup. We did have it working on the first day at work, but not since.

A couple of things that might have an impact are the gateway settings and the user logins. We are using the same user on all the computers. and I am pretty sure that both clients at work have static addresses with the server address as the gateway. I don't know what I have the gateway set at on the server.

I have just been testing at home. As I said above, I turned off the DNS initiate dialing, disconnected the dial up connection and started IE in the client. The server dialed out. Then , I disconnected and logged off the server. I started up IE on the client and the server did not dial out. The wingate client shows in the tray,and the duration timer shows over an hour.
I logged onto the server and started IE again on the client and the server did not dial. I opened gatekeeper and WRP control session: iexplore.exe from the client computer shows with a 9 sec duration in the history tab. It looks like wingate engine and wingate client are talking to each other, but they are not smart enough to figure out that there is no internet connection and dialing is necessary. This is with DNS initiate dialing off. I just turned DNS initiate dialing on and started IE. The server dialed out. In my home setup I have DHCP enabled. On the server, I have a static ip address and the gateway and DNS addresses are blank.

If the WRP control session is active, shouldn't that be enough to initiate dialing? If this is running as a service, shouldn't it work when logged off? I just logged off with DNS initiate turned on and started IE on the client. It did not dial out. I still have the connection monitor showing in the tray and the duration timer is still ticking. Does this mean that the client is still connected? I logged onto the server, started IE on the client and it dialed out.

I would like know why the dialing doesn't work all the time when DNS initiate is turned off and I would like to know why dialing doesn't work when logged off. Have you been able to duplicate these problems in your test setup?

Regards,

Ron C.

[ron christensen]

James,

I understand why the conection monitor was on the whole time. It was because I had firefox open while writing my message. As soon as both firefox and IE were closed, the connection monitor disappeared. Sorry about the confusion.

Ron C.

[ron christensen]

James,

I realized that I hadn't tested the direct ip address to google as you suggested. It works whether I have DNS initiate turned on or off. Maybe this is one of the facts that I have been missing about the dialer. I was under the impression that the WRP session would initiate dialing, but maybe it is only an HTTP session (which can't start without an ip address) that initiates dialing (unless DNS initiate is turned on). If this is the case, then I can setup my home page (i.e. google) at http://66.102.7.147 and it would always initiate dial out even with DNS initiate turned off. I have done so and it seems to work. I still don't understand why dialing works without this sometimes, but I guess that there is a cached ip address that gets used.

This seems like a catch 22 to me, you can't dial out unless you have the ip address and you won't get the ip address unless you allow DNS to initiate dialing. If this is the case, it would be nice to have this information in the help file. For now, it looks like we have made progress, I have to test this at work.

Ron C.

[Pascal]

WRP is not an outgoing session, it is only a control connection between the client and WinGate. I wouldn't expect it to dial, but i will need to check the source code on Monday.

[ron christensen]

Pascal,

Thanks for jumping in. If a browser on the client starts a wrp session and no internet connection is active, wouldn't that be the perfect time to initiate dialing? It would be nice to know all the things that do initiate dialing.

I still can't get dialing to work when logged off...any thoughts?

Regards,

Ron C.

[Pascal]

wouldn't expect it to dial, but i will need to check the source code on Monday.

I'd need to check the code. As a WRP control connection is established even if an application does not need to dial, I suspect that the presence of a WRP connection won't be enough to trigger the dialer. it might only happen once the app has indicated it wants to go outside.

The logged off state is strange. WinGate runs as a service on Win2k and starts when the OS boots, so it should be accessible and completely useable. if you establish a dialup connection (OS level) and then log off can you still surf from a client machine?

It might be worthwhile to check that WinGate is running as a service. Have you made any modificatins to the permissions / user it signs in to the Os as?

[ron christensen]

Pascal,

Your suggestion paid off. My home setup has an internal modem. It disconnects on log off. I found the wrp session in the history during the time logged off. I also found the dialing in the dialing log (debug was on per your suggestion). It reported a hardware failure in the modem so it couldn't complete the dial up connection. I am sorry I didn't check this before. It is so much easier now that I know how to get it to dial. BTW, the the dialing log reports "Dialing...(requested by WRP Control Session - IEXPLORE.EXE)". This sure gives the impression that the wrp session is requesting the dialing.

The setup at work uses an external modem. I will try this out on Monday, but I am confident that it will work. I will report.

Thanks very much for the help. I still would like to know more about the dialing request process.

Regards,

Ron C.

[Pascal]

On the WRP dialing case. The presence of a WRP connection is not enough to force dialing. With the introduction (6.0.4 with Enterprise license) of Central Configuration it is possible that an application might not need to dial as soon as the WRP connection is established. That is only a control connection, so the system will only dial when it receives a command over WRP to connect to something outside of the network that is not blocked by any of its rules.

That said, in most setups the dialing would be instigated by the DNS lookup in any event, so it would be an (almost) moot point.

[jamesc]

Small Background on Dialer request process:

Why DNS dialer needs to be ticked (unless you have a DNS server on ya network and it is configured with common addresses you use.)

DNS is the way domain names we remember, eg, www.microsoft.com are turned into numbers, which computers uses.

So the reason we have "Initiate Dialer" in the DNS settings ticked, is becuase, when we open up IE, and it is given a domain name; i.e www.microsoft.com, it must find out the IP address so it can connect ot it.

So your PC say, how do I connect to www.microsoft.com, the IP address in not in my cache (because I just restarted my PC), its not in the "Hosts" file, because I have not manually entered it, so I will to contact a DNS server to find out how to get there.

"Hey there is no DNS server on my network, So I will ring the internet to connect to it". .. and WinGate Dials up the internet., Talks to the DNS server at your ISP, and the DNS server says "www.microsoft.com is at, 207.46.249.252" and sends that address back to your computer, and then yyou have the correct IP address to open the web page.